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	<title>Comments on: Why can&#8217;t a car engine run on water?</title>
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	<link>http://notes.dpdx.net/2006/05/23/why-cant-a-car-engine-run-on-water/</link>
	<description>Fluid Dynamics, Computer Simulations, and Assorted Tinkering</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 26 Jul 2010 16:24:52 -0700</lastBuildDate>
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		<item>
		<title>By: Win Mg</title>
		<link>http://notes.dpdx.net/2006/05/23/why-cant-a-car-engine-run-on-water/comment-page-1/#comment-26299</link>
		<dc:creator>Win Mg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Feb 2009 09:31:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://notes.dpdx.net/2006/05/23/why-cant-a-car-engine-run-on-water/#comment-26299</guid>
		<description>I think one day it will be possible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think one day it will be possible.</p>
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		<title>By: Anantdeep Handa</title>
		<link>http://notes.dpdx.net/2006/05/23/why-cant-a-car-engine-run-on-water/comment-page-1/#comment-21540</link>
		<dc:creator>Anantdeep Handa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2008 10:22:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://notes.dpdx.net/2006/05/23/why-cant-a-car-engine-run-on-water/#comment-21540</guid>
		<description>hello Marlin,
      Greetings,
        My email id is 
 anantdeephanda@rediffmail.com
take care,

Anant.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hello Marlin,<br />
      Greetings,<br />
        My email id is<br />
 <a href="mailto:anantdeephanda@rediffmail.com">anantdeephanda@rediffmail.com</a><br />
take care,</p>
<p>Anant.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: marlin</title>
		<link>http://notes.dpdx.net/2006/05/23/why-cant-a-car-engine-run-on-water/comment-page-1/#comment-20157</link>
		<dc:creator>marlin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 13:57:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://notes.dpdx.net/2006/05/23/why-cant-a-car-engine-run-on-water/#comment-20157</guid>
		<description>to anantdeep handa, what is your e-mail address,i would like to discuss the theory of running engine on water only with you!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>to anantdeep handa, what is your e-mail address,i would like to discuss the theory of running engine on water only with you!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: mark</title>
		<link>http://notes.dpdx.net/2006/05/23/why-cant-a-car-engine-run-on-water/comment-page-1/#comment-17954</link>
		<dc:creator>mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jul 2008 13:33:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://notes.dpdx.net/2006/05/23/why-cant-a-car-engine-run-on-water/#comment-17954</guid>
		<description>If a car can be run on water only then the worlds energy problems are solved.! However that would be perpetual energy which defies the basic principals of physics and chemistry.Chemical theory suggests that you must put as much energy into splitting water molecules as you can get by burning hydrogen.HHO conversions increase the efficiency of the engines fuel and does not produce any net energy once consideration of the load on the engines alternator is accounted.If I am wrong pleeeease tell me.I want to be wrong!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If a car can be run on water only then the worlds energy problems are solved.! However that would be perpetual energy which defies the basic principals of physics and chemistry.Chemical theory suggests that you must put as much energy into splitting water molecules as you can get by burning hydrogen.HHO conversions increase the efficiency of the engines fuel and does not produce any net energy once consideration of the load on the engines alternator is accounted.If I am wrong pleeeease tell me.I want to be wrong!</p>
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		<title>By: Jack</title>
		<link>http://notes.dpdx.net/2006/05/23/why-cant-a-car-engine-run-on-water/comment-page-1/#comment-17146</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jun 2008 23:40:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://notes.dpdx.net/2006/05/23/why-cant-a-car-engine-run-on-water/#comment-17146</guid>
		<description>How many cubic inches of  atmospheric pressure H2 is there in a quart of water?  We run IC engines on propane.  H2 is a better fuel than propane so why not.  You don&#039;t have to compress the H2 in high pressure cylinders to use the H2 -- You just have to release it from the H20 and run a small gas pump to put into the same system of a converted car engine, running on propane.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How many cubic inches of  atmospheric pressure H2 is there in a quart of water?  We run IC engines on propane.  H2 is a better fuel than propane so why not.  You don&#8217;t have to compress the H2 in high pressure cylinders to use the H2 &#8212; You just have to release it from the H20 and run a small gas pump to put into the same system of a converted car engine, running on propane.</p>
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		<title>By: Hayath</title>
		<link>http://notes.dpdx.net/2006/05/23/why-cant-a-car-engine-run-on-water/comment-page-1/#comment-16690</link>
		<dc:creator>Hayath</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 May 2008 04:07:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://notes.dpdx.net/2006/05/23/why-cant-a-car-engine-run-on-water/#comment-16690</guid>
		<description>I am young graduate. Just left my job in Dubai and came back to india to work on hydrogen engines. The arguement about transformers is not so suitable because  transformer steps up the voltage at the cost of reducing Power [amps] in equal proposion. So without amps work cannot be done. So however i just want to know weather those electrons in electrolysis can make wonders or not. What cavalic compound we can add for easy and high density splitting of water molecules.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am young graduate. Just left my job in Dubai and came back to india to work on hydrogen engines. The arguement about transformers is not so suitable because  transformer steps up the voltage at the cost of reducing Power [amps] in equal proposion. So without amps work cannot be done. So however i just want to know weather those electrons in electrolysis can make wonders or not. What cavalic compound we can add for easy and high density splitting of water molecules.</p>
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		<title>By: figaro (peter njeru)</title>
		<link>http://notes.dpdx.net/2006/05/23/why-cant-a-car-engine-run-on-water/comment-page-1/#comment-15878</link>
		<dc:creator>figaro (peter njeru)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 09:42:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://notes.dpdx.net/2006/05/23/why-cant-a-car-engine-run-on-water/#comment-15878</guid>
		<description>very good arguments. but is what is on sale -technology kit workable? has anyone tried it out yet?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>very good arguments. but is what is on sale -technology kit workable? has anyone tried it out yet?</p>
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		<title>By: Gary Landsen</title>
		<link>http://notes.dpdx.net/2006/05/23/why-cant-a-car-engine-run-on-water/comment-page-1/#comment-12998</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary Landsen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jan 2008 02:46:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://notes.dpdx.net/2006/05/23/why-cant-a-car-engine-run-on-water/#comment-12998</guid>
		<description>Of course you can run a car on water. And in many situations there is more energy coming out then what came in. For example transformers inside plugs they change 120v into 9v and works the same way around if the electricity is coming from the other side.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course you can run a car on water. And in many situations there is more energy coming out then what came in. For example transformers inside plugs they change 120v into 9v and works the same way around if the electricity is coming from the other side.</p>
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		<title>By: Ankur walia</title>
		<link>http://notes.dpdx.net/2006/05/23/why-cant-a-car-engine-run-on-water/comment-page-1/#comment-8597</link>
		<dc:creator>Ankur walia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Oct 2007 17:55:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://notes.dpdx.net/2006/05/23/why-cant-a-car-engine-run-on-water/#comment-8597</guid>
		<description>a car can run on water. the thing is that we all are thinking abt ic engine but water will not work on that principle. we have to develop a new principle. i am working on it and i am sure that i will surely do it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>a car can run on water. the thing is that we all are thinking abt ic engine but water will not work on that principle. we have to develop a new principle. i am working on it and i am sure that i will surely do it.</p>
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		<title>By: Anantdeep Handa</title>
		<link>http://notes.dpdx.net/2006/05/23/why-cant-a-car-engine-run-on-water/comment-page-1/#comment-5800</link>
		<dc:creator>Anantdeep Handa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jun 2007 11:27:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://notes.dpdx.net/2006/05/23/why-cant-a-car-engine-run-on-water/#comment-5800</guid>
		<description>A car engine working on water could be possible...the available form of water can make a car engine run...if u want to knw how...u can contact me at the given email...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A car engine working on water could be possible&#8230;the available form of water can make a car engine run&#8230;if u want to knw how&#8230;u can contact me at the given email&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Brooks</title>
		<link>http://notes.dpdx.net/2006/05/23/why-cant-a-car-engine-run-on-water/comment-page-1/#comment-2991</link>
		<dc:creator>Brooks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jan 2007 09:54:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://notes.dpdx.net/2006/05/23/why-cant-a-car-engine-run-on-water/#comment-2991</guid>
		<description>Andrew: True enough.  I should have specified that I was assuming that the same atoms came out as went in, so that there weren&#039;t any nuclear reactions.  I think that with current technology that&#039;s a justified assumption, though perhaps in a few hundred years it won&#039;t be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andrew: True enough.  I should have specified that I was assuming that the same atoms came out as went in, so that there weren&#8217;t any nuclear reactions.  I think that with current technology that&#8217;s a justified assumption, though perhaps in a few hundred years it won&#8217;t be.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://notes.dpdx.net/2006/05/23/why-cant-a-car-engine-run-on-water/comment-page-1/#comment-2260</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Dec 2006 08:27:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://notes.dpdx.net/2006/05/23/why-cant-a-car-engine-run-on-water/#comment-2260</guid>
		<description>You need a self-sustaining nuclear reaction that operates on water molecules. Not impossible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You need a self-sustaining nuclear reaction that operates on water molecules. Not impossible.</p>
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		<title>By: Isaac Ikoro</title>
		<link>http://notes.dpdx.net/2006/05/23/why-cant-a-car-engine-run-on-water/comment-page-1/#comment-70</link>
		<dc:creator>Isaac Ikoro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Aug 2006 20:03:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://notes.dpdx.net/2006/05/23/why-cant-a-car-engine-run-on-water/#comment-70</guid>
		<description>I believe I can make a car that runs on water</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe I can make a car that runs on water</p>
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		<title>By: TWAndrews</title>
		<link>http://notes.dpdx.net/2006/05/23/why-cant-a-car-engine-run-on-water/comment-page-1/#comment-8</link>
		<dc:creator>TWAndrews</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 May 2006 14:36:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://notes.dpdx.net/2006/05/23/why-cant-a-car-engine-run-on-water/#comment-8</guid>
		<description>From the thermodynamic point of view, the an engine which produces a waste product with the same or greater energy than the fuel which went in obviously doesn&#039;t work.  However, if you step back and look at the engineering problem of getting a car to run on water,  this doesn&#039;t tell you a lot.  Thermodynamics doesn&#039;t forbid a car which uses water as its primary fuel source.

The key to this being the assumption that the water is only the &lt;b&gt;primary&lt;/b&gt; source of energy.   One can put together a pretty realisitc scenario where we get big improvements in the efficiency of turning energy into motion by having another power source in play. 

One of the problems with converting fuel into motion is that the theoretically available energy based on a fuel&#039;s chemical composition is much higher than the energy that can be productively used in a mechanical system.  And as I understand, this is particularly true for the current generation of battery operated cars, as cars have grown up with, and are hence optimized for, use with internal combustion engines which typically run between 500 - 5000 rpm.

However, its possible to imagine that the inventor in this case has developed a clever new way of splitting water into hydrogen and oxygen using current from a battery.  So the water goes in, is split using power from a battery stored in the car, and explosively recombined to power the car.  The total energy cost is whatever energy was drawn from the battery to split the water.

So some questions about whether or not this is possible, based on the claim that 4oz. of water can drive the car for 100 miles are:

1. Is there even enough energy in the hydrogen gas produced from 4oz. of water to drive an average size car that far? Or, Is this just a total hoax?

2. If so, is it theoretically possible (i.e. using a 100% efficient method) to split 4oz. of water with an energy source which could fit in the box shown in the video (which is aprox. 2&#039; x 2&#039; x 3&#039;)? How much energy (and hence battery weight) can be saved by using battery power to split water for fuel rather than moving the car directly? Or, Is this actually a viable method for powering a car?

3. If so, how much does this improve on the efficiency of current electrolysis methods. Or, Is this new?

As far as I can see, the questions are increasingly likely to be answered in the negative.  Though I don&#039;t know, I can imagine that there&#039;s enough hydrogen in 4oz. of water to power a car.  

I&#039;d be rather more surprised if it was possible to gain efficiency by essentially adding a step to the chain of conversion from energy --&gt; motion.  But since each step is quite inefficient, I suppose it would be possible to replace one particularly inefficient step with two more efficient ones and realize a gain.  

However, I&#039;d be absolutely shocked if this was really a drastically more efficient way of splitting water such that it all of a sudden made sense to use spoonfuls of water to drive cars.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From the thermodynamic point of view, the an engine which produces a waste product with the same or greater energy than the fuel which went in obviously doesn&#8217;t work.  However, if you step back and look at the engineering problem of getting a car to run on water,  this doesn&#8217;t tell you a lot.  Thermodynamics doesn&#8217;t forbid a car which uses water as its primary fuel source.</p>
<p>The key to this being the assumption that the water is only the <b>primary</b> source of energy.   One can put together a pretty realisitc scenario where we get big improvements in the efficiency of turning energy into motion by having another power source in play. </p>
<p>One of the problems with converting fuel into motion is that the theoretically available energy based on a fuel&#8217;s chemical composition is much higher than the energy that can be productively used in a mechanical system.  And as I understand, this is particularly true for the current generation of battery operated cars, as cars have grown up with, and are hence optimized for, use with internal combustion engines which typically run between 500 &#8211; 5000 rpm.</p>
<p>However, its possible to imagine that the inventor in this case has developed a clever new way of splitting water into hydrogen and oxygen using current from a battery.  So the water goes in, is split using power from a battery stored in the car, and explosively recombined to power the car.  The total energy cost is whatever energy was drawn from the battery to split the water.</p>
<p>So some questions about whether or not this is possible, based on the claim that 4oz. of water can drive the car for 100 miles are:</p>
<p>1. Is there even enough energy in the hydrogen gas produced from 4oz. of water to drive an average size car that far? Or, Is this just a total hoax?</p>
<p>2. If so, is it theoretically possible (i.e. using a 100% efficient method) to split 4oz. of water with an energy source which could fit in the box shown in the video (which is aprox. 2&#8242; x 2&#8242; x 3&#8242;)? How much energy (and hence battery weight) can be saved by using battery power to split water for fuel rather than moving the car directly? Or, Is this actually a viable method for powering a car?</p>
<p>3. If so, how much does this improve on the efficiency of current electrolysis methods. Or, Is this new?</p>
<p>As far as I can see, the questions are increasingly likely to be answered in the negative.  Though I don&#8217;t know, I can imagine that there&#8217;s enough hydrogen in 4oz. of water to power a car.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;d be rather more surprised if it was possible to gain efficiency by essentially adding a step to the chain of conversion from energy &#8211;&gt; motion.  But since each step is quite inefficient, I suppose it would be possible to replace one particularly inefficient step with two more efficient ones and realize a gain.  </p>
<p>However, I&#8217;d be absolutely shocked if this was really a drastically more efficient way of splitting water such that it all of a sudden made sense to use spoonfuls of water to drive cars.</p>
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